Second part of interview with Dr. Lola Karimova of the AESOP Centre in Moscow. She continues to talk about prostitutes in Moscow and the women she has been
in contact with. She says she is most concerned about the street prostitutes, and wants to publish a small booklet for prostitutes who work at the train station. She recounts a story of meeting
an 11-year-old girl who was working as a prostitute.
NB: Can you explain why you don't want to talk about it, that's also important. Lola: I think the situation in Russia is so uncontrolled, that ...it's not
just my opinion, but I think that anyone working on this problem will not talk about it. This is what I think about it. Since there exist closed brothels which service the Russian
establishment, someone is protecting it, and someone needs it. If there can be a huge number of advertisements in newspapers with a big circulation about the fact that a man can receive any
services in these houses, they have different names, "Diana," "Roksana." It's official, you can read about it in any newspaper. The government knows about it. But it exists all the same.
NB: Can you tell us more about the brothel where you worked. Lola: I don't know where this brothel was, since the doctors' offices were in a completely
different place. None of us knew where it is, who works there. Of course we knew the contingent which we treated, but again, we didn't know their names. There was a catalogue (files) where
there were numbers and any made-up name. In addition, these women didn't know ...the true owners of this place. It was a very complicated chain, where everyone knew a small link. Of course,
there were drivers with cars who knew a few people, each woman knew several people, but practically no one knew the full picture. NB: Did the police know? Lola: Of course...I don't know where
it was, but I know it was protected.
NB: You had said that you had honest conversations with these women. What were they about? Lola: About their profession, about their lifestyle. I didn't
ask what men they serviced. These questions were forbidden from the beginning. One couldn't talk about these topics. I never asked what kind of sex they practice, how many men they service. My
conversations with them were honest, but about their emotional health. About what they think about this, about whether they have children, and how the children deal with this problem...I
already talked about that.
NB: Would you like to add anything? Lola: I am most worried about the lower strata of prostitution, because this is a contingent with a high percentage of
all the STD, a high percentage of abortions, of criminal [illegal] abortions. I'm very worried about them. I've been thinking about what can be done for them. And I came up with this idea for
the train station prostitutes. To publish a small booklet, bright, colorful, so they take it in their hands. There will be a condom attached to this booklet. They will never come to us. They
won't come to us and say, "I'm a prostitute, help me, or give me a condom." But at many train stations, there are consulting rooms for these women... which work for Doctors without Borders (?
unclear). Maybe if we leave these booklets on the tables in these consulting rooms, pretty, bright booklets with condoms inside, the women will pick them up. Even if five of them don't use it,
maybe the sixth will. That is already good. It will progress along a chain. Maybe the first month, twenty women will pick them up, but the second month, maybe a hundred, and then maybe more.
This is the first step. And then when after a few months, women will pick up these condoms with the booklets...it can't be just a piece of paper, no one pick up just a piece of paper. For them,
it needs to be something pretty. I understand that this means money, that it will be very costly, but the health of a nation is much more costly, and much more valuable than a piece of paper.
Maybe that's where we should start. But that's just my idea.
NB: What is the attitude of Russian men toward condoms? Lola: You know, it is changing in a very positive way. My center portrays condoms as a hygienic
measure, a lifestyle, that it's the same kind of means like toothpaste, like hand cream, that it's a lifestyle. And we're succeeding. Interest toward condoms is growing, and people are
beginning to use good condoms, not red or black or with ducks or with mustaches, but good condoms. This makes me very happy.
NB ASKS GBC WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS To ASK. NB: Can you say something about the age of prostitutes? Lola: I know 11 year old girls who are prostitutes. They
start at 11. NB: Did you read about this in the papers? Lola: I asked her how old she was, and she said 11. It was a chance encounter, an honest conversation on the street with a little girl.
Why are you standing on the street so late? [LOLA PAUSES, WANTING NB TO ASK ABOUT THE
ANSWER]. NB: And what did she answer? Lola: At first she was silent, but then we began to talk, and she said that she's not embarrassed by it, that she performs oral sex on men, and gets
25,000 rubles for it. NB: And what about her parents? Did she have parents, did they know about this?
Lola: Yes, she was from a troubled family, her parents were alcoholics, but I don't think that it's characteristic for all underage prostitutes.
Although, the appearance of these girls suggests that they are not from very well-off families.
NB: In the brothel where you worked, did the prostitutes live there? Lola: No, they came there.
NB: How many days a week did they work? Lola: Those with whom I talked would tell in advance about their free time, and would give their hours ahead of
NB: Did they service Russian men or foreigners? Lola: They were rich Russians and rich foreigners.
NB: Did they use condoms? Lola: They always used condoms.
NB: Do you have any more stories, anecdotes you would like to tell us? Lola: You know, I have a lot of stories, but I have to be at an appointment in town
at 3:00....A woman is 29 years old. She is from Central Asia, she's Russian, she has two kids, she split up with her husband already here, in Moscow. A very pretty woman. She had a lover who
supported her, and when they split up, he passed her on to another man, who also supported her. This other man had friends who also paid her to service them. [PHONE RINGS VERY LOUDLY]. Another
little story. NB: Is this typical? Lola: Not really typical? NB: What was her motivation for becoming a prostitute? Lola: Money, I think...Money. And no other alternatives to earn it. NB ASKS
[Interview with Dr. Lola Karimova, AESOP Center, Moscow, part 2]
Second part of interview (in Russian) with Dr. Lola Karimova of the AESOP Centre in Moscow. She continues to talk about sex workers in Moscow and the women she has been in contact with. She says she is most concerned about street prostitutes, and wants to publish a small booklet for the women who work at the train station. She recounts a story of meeting an 11-year-old girl who was working as a prostitute. At the end of the interview, there is an MCU of the interviewer Natalia Blinkova re-asking all of the questions and looking off-screen, shot for video production purposes.
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Global Survival NetworkRole: Creator
Natalia Blinkova[?]Role: Interviewer
Gillian CaldwellRole: Cinematographer
Global Survival Network
The University of Texas
armed conflict and persecution--sexual violence
civil and political rights--women's rights
economic, social, and cultural rights--economic and labor rights -- sex workers
armed conflict and persecution--domestic violence
economic, social, and cultural rights--health and healthcare
civil and political rights--discrimination--gender discrimination
North America--United States--New York--Brooklyn
Type of Resource:
Thousands of women from Russia and post-Soviet states have endured exploitation and slavery, yet their stories have been largely ignored by most law enforcement agencies and governments. Police agencies in receiving countries often minimize the extent of trafficking, and governments usually respond to trafficking as a problem of illegal migration, an approach that transforms women victimized by particular circumstances into criminals. To learn why and how this form of modern slavery persists, and to propose solutions, the Global Survival Network (GSN) conducted a study from August 1995 through the Autumn of 1997 to uncover the rapidly growing trade in Russian women for the purposes of prostitution. GSN conducted videotaped interviews with numerous non-governmental organizations, women who had been trafficked overseas, and police and government officials in Russia, Western Europe, Asia, and the United States. In order to delve into and learn more about the world of organized crime and its role in Russian sex trafficking, GSN also conducted some unconventional research by establishing a dummy company that purportedly specialized in importing foreign women as escorts and entertainers. Under the guide of this company, GSN successfully gained entry to the operations of international trafficking networks based in Russia and beyond. Many of the interviews were recorded with hidden cameras and provide insight into the trafficking underworld in action. Wherever legal, interviews were recorded by hidden cameras directly inside the establishments where prostitution was occurring. Whenever possible, the investigators revealed the nature of the work. In some cases, security conditions for both the investigator and the persons interviewed prevented disclosure. In order to preserve the safety and privacy of all parties involved, pseudonyms have been given to the persons interviewed during GSN's covert investigations, and whenever requested otherwise. "Bought and Sold: An Investigative Documentary on the International Trade in Women" was produced by GSN in collaboration with WITNESS in 1997, based on the two year undercover investigation. This groundbreaking documentary helped to catalyze legislative reform on trafficking as well as new financial resources to address the problem.
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