Interview with Carolyn Mosley Samuel

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  •  35, IH 35 
  •  Dallas (Dallas County) 
  •  Hutto (Williamson County) 
  •  Nacogdoches (Nacogdoches County) 
  •  Brian 
  •  DeMarcus 
  •  Isaiah  
  •  Kasma 
  •  McTear, Dorothy 
  •  McTear, Marcus 
  •  Mosley, Harrell (Trella's dad) 
  •  Mosley, Otralla LuWone (Trella) 
  •  Rhonda 
  •  Stephanie, Miss Stephanie (no last name) 
Table of Contents 
  •  Featured Segment: Attempting to get help for Marcus, a segment that it is a little bit over three minutes. 
  •  Introduction  
  •  Watch Video 2and Video 3of "Interview with Ms. Carolyn Mosley Samuel." 
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  •  BACON: With Ms. Carolyn Mosely in Austin, Texas. Myself, Kimberly Bacon, is conducting the interview and Parish Jefferson is doing the camera work. So we'll start out, if you could just tell me a little about yourself and kind of where you came from and your family history that sort of thing 
  •  CAROLYN MOSLEY: Okay, I am Carolyn Mosley and I was born in Nacogdoches, Texas and at three months we moved to Dallas. 
  •  MOSLEY: And when we moved to Dallas, my father used to do a lot of different types of work until he became a self-employed plumber. He had his own business. And when he had his business, we did pretty good. We was doing real good. My dad was a great provider. And my mom she was the kind of person she didn't have to work and when she grew up she was abused. And when she was abused —by her abused then she abused because that was her bringing up. And I was the product of her abuse. 
  •  I would get beat with extension cords, switches, if a switch wore out, she gonna come back with another switch. Go get me another one. I might have knots upside my head my nose might be bleeding. I might be bleeding all over from scars. I got scars from—I still got scars from switching cords. My sisters used to beg my mom "Mom, stop. We'll bust instead of her," you know. And because of that abuse I left home. 
  •  And when I left home, I ran onto another type of abuse. I wanted to leave home so badly it didn't matter to me. But I didn't know that I was running into the arms of another abuser, which was a man. And the type of abuse that I got from this man was—he would beat me. And on my birthday he beat me, so badly, I was seven months pregnant and he beat me so badly until I lost my son. You see, my first-born was a son. And I was seven months pregnant when he got killed. And I say when got killed because they said at the hospital that my son was killed because my son was actually inside of me fighting for his life. His eye was messed up. His arm was broken. His little ribs were crushed in, the little gristle bone he did have was all beat up and messed up. 
  •  On March the twenty-first—I got beat up on March the seventeenth. Now remember all of these dates. On March the seventeenth I got beat up. On March the twenty-first, I had my son. I held my son in my vagina until I got to the hospital. They was like, "Miss Carolyn, you got to let him go, you got to let it go." I said, but if I let it go, he gonna come. It's too early. 
  •  I have a thing with children. I love children. I love children so much, and when they get hurt, it is a pain for me to see a child hurting. So my son didn't make it. His name was Demarcus. He did not make it. 
  •  Although I went back home with my mom cause I left him, and I went back home to my mom. And after getting back home to my mom, I couldn't afford to stay with my mother. See, my mother wasn't one of those mothers that you could stay here until you could get back on your feet and move out. My mother was one of those mothers who was you pay me four hundred dollars a month and you buy your rent. And I still have my car loan and my insurance, so basically it's like I had a one bedroom apartment staying with my mother. So there was no way I could save money. 
  •  Plus, I was working with my father at the time because I had gotten beaten up so bad, this man would come to my job. I lost my job because of him. So thank God my dad did have a business to where I could have a little something coming in. And that little something —my check would go to my mother, not my daddy. 'Cause my mother was one of those people, she dressed, boy she dressed good. That's one thing about her, we all dress well but my mother, she have her hats on, you know she'll be dressed to a "T." 
  •  But I'm not dogging my mom out. I love my mother with everything in me. We just didn't get an opportunity at that age to learn each other. And then people ask me, why you didn't get an opportunity to learn your mother, your mother didn't get an opportunity to learn you? No. Because my mother didn't know how. And me, being as young as I was, I didn't know how to give her love 'cause I wasn't receiving it. You have to be taught love before you can give it. You got to know what love is before you can pass it down. I didn't know what it was. 
  •  All I knew was abuse. And being abused was a norm for me. It was like you wake up, you go to sleep, wondering, what good can happen for me when you being told, 24/7 you just like me and you ain't going to be nothing. You ain't gonna be able to do this, you ain't gonna be able to do that. Although I was in school, I was a city coordinator council leader, I was president of this, I was president of that. I mean, I was doing good in school. But it was not appreciated by my mom. Because she would always put it up in my face, you just like me. Well if I am just like you, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with us? Why can't we fix it? Those have always been my questions. 
  •  So I grew on up, stayed with my mom. This guy, he kept talking to me and I was like, Lord, I need a way out. I need a way out of this. I went back. You know, you wonder, why do people go back to their abuser? I went back because I was going to be abused any way I went, I felt like I didn't have any choice. I didn't really know how to grow up because I'd never been taught how to grow up. I didn't know how to be responsible wholeheartedly because I wasn't taught to be responsible. All I was taught was when you make your check you bring it home, whether it was for him or for my mother. I didn't know how to do money because I'd never had money of my own. So basically, that's like that took my independence away. I was always dependent upon my abusers, cause I had nowhere else to go, nothing else to do.  
  •  So in the process of me going back, I found out that I was pregnant again. With my oldest daughter Kasma. When I was pregnant with Kasma-- this ain't going to happen to me no more. I'm getting out of this. So, I left, pregnant, and when I left, it was just me and Kasma, and for three years, I was doing great. I was doing really, really well. 
  •  And then I met Trella's dad. When I met him, I thought everything was going to be good. You know, a lot of times when you meet guys, and I can only speak from a woman's point of view because I'm a woman. But a lot of times when you meet a man and you feel good with him, give it time. And the reason why I say that is because I rushed. I didn't get to know him, I just got to get to know what was in his pants. 
  •  And I didn't get to know him as an individual, as a person with emotions, as a person with feelings, as a person with time inside. And what I mean by that is, after I got to know him I found out he couldn' t wake up without a joint; he couldn't go to sleep without a joint; he couldn't get up in the middle of the night and go to the bathroom without smoking a joint before he come back to bed.  I didn't know of the addiction that he had. So there I am, running into another abuse. And that got so to where he started stealing. 
  •  Our bills wasn't getting paid cause him too, I was giving my money too. So I left him when Trella was nine months old. And I moved, and I started teaching my children abuse. Because I was never taught that. And I always thought, if I don't teach them then they could fall into the arms of people like I did. And then if I taught them, at least they could notice it before it got too bad. And I taught my children how to love. See, a lot of people don't teach their children love. They teach their children be who you are and whatever happens happens. 
  •  And what I mean by that is like you have people saying, Okay, well, I love him and I care a lot about him, but what is love? Love is your worth, love is who you are, love is being you freely and unconditionally. Love don't come with a condition. Love comes with much freedom. 
  •  And people don't understand that. They think you have to be bound in love. No. If you bound in love, you're being abused. Because to be bound means you're being forced to do something or you're steadfast and you can't do nothing at all. All that, that's abuse. 
  •  Only thing that I feel love can come with is freedom. And that's something Trella would say all the time. "Love is a butterfly. It's locked up in an individual until it's able to let go and be free." 
  •  A lot of people didn't understand that concept but a butterfly's in a cocoon for so long but when it comes out it's beautiful.  And that's what love is, it's beautiful, it's freedom. And I taught my children that. 
  •  So Trella got older, Kasma got older, and there was an incident that happened with me and my oldest daughter Kasma. This incident happened to where the police ended up being called to my house because my daughter did something to me one day-- and I flipped out. I jumped momma on her. And I don't mean me momma, I mean my momma. She raised her hand at me, and I've always--I was the type of person back then where little girls, if ever you raise your hand to me that would make me wonder and think and feel that at that particular moment, that you forgot that I'm your mom. That I'm just somebody off the street. So in turn, I'm gonna forget you my child, and I'm gonna show you what you run up on. I may be older but I'm gonna, I'm gonna hurt you. That was my concept. 
  •  I went--that part--that part was not correct on my part. I should have never made that statement to my children and I should have never done that to my children. But that was my defense in regards to letting them know, don't ever try it. Me thinking I'm putting fear in their heart, don't raise your hand to you mom, she going to kick your butt. 
  •  My oldest daughter Kasma got bold one day. Homegirl raised her hand to me and when she did, I went off. To this day, she'll tell you, momma's still apologizing for that. 
  •  Police was called to the house, I went to the house and I said, y'all might as well handcuff me now, I said, 'cause when y'all leave, I'm gonna beat her up again. You gonna call the police on me and I've been taking care of you all these years, you don't even know your daddy? You don't even see your daddy, you don't even talk to your daddy. What's up with this? And then you gonna take this out on me? And then call the police to my house? Girl, you crazy. And I'm saying all this in front of the police officer.  And they was like "Ms. Mosley, calm down, calm down Ms. Mosley, calm down."  I said, "Okay, what do y'all want?' They said "Well, we gonna have to call C.P.S." I said, "Call them." 
  •  And then I snapped: Girl, you acting like your momma. Chill out. So what I did, I looked at those officers, there was about six of them, my house was full, and I said, "You know what? Give me till Monday. I'm gonna get me and my child some help." 
  •  Notice I didn't say I'm gonna get my child some help. We, as a family, at that time, had a problem. All three of us because I had involved Trella for seeing that. Kasma and I went off on each other, although she didn't go off on me, she just raised her hand and I just went off. I hurt her. She never hit me. But it was just the fact that that hand raised. Knowing that I've already been in abusive relationships, I took it out on her. So they said well, "Ms. Mosley, okay, we understand what you're going to do." 
  •  So I said, I was trying to protect my child so if y'all see her out there y'all shoot her cause Kasma was going through some things. She had some behavior problems. She would skip school, she would do some things, you know. But when she would skip school she was going up to Trella's school. You heard someone says one word to Trella, Kasma's on her way, cause Trella's not going to do nothing to you. Although she can get pretty silly sometimes, she ain't gonna do nothing to you. Kasma will come and beat you up and go on back to school like nothing happened. 
  •  So they said, "Okay, we'll give you till Monday, but C.P.S. is going to come out." I said "Okay."  A lady came out from C.P.S. that Friday, it was a Friday, she came out that Friday and she said, "We are gonna have to start monitoring your house and monitoring your children" and blah blah blah. And I said, no you're not. I said, I told the police give me till Monday. You give me till Monday, and I'm going to show you what I can do for me and my family. She said, "Well, what are you going to do?" And I said, "I really don't know yet," I said, "but me and my family need help, mainly me since I'm considered the head of the household. I need some serious help." 
  •  And a lot of people when they see they need a problem, they hide it. And the problem only continues to grow. It continues to grow and fester and fester and fester until you blow up again and it's worse than before. I learned that through abuse. I taught my children that. If they tap you one time, next time they're going to tap you harder. They tap you harder the next time they going to hit you. When they hit you then they going to start beating up on you. It just goes grow and grow and grow and grow. 
  •  So come Saturday, I start making phone calls that morning and I found this place called the Methodist Children Home. And I spoke to a young lady there and I started crying when I talked to her and I said you gotta help me. She said, "Well, this is a home for children."  So I said, when you help my child, you going to be helping me." And she told me all the things that they offered. They offered counseling for you know, parents and the children, but the only thing is your child has to stay there. The child has to stay there for a year. I was like, "Well we ain't never been separated, so I don't know." She said, "You said you wanted help, Ms. Mosley." I said, whatever it takes, let's do it. 
  •  Sunday, me and my children -- me, Kasma and Trella  -- rode to Waco, Texas. I sat down and I talked to Miss Stephanie and she said that we can accept her today if you like. I said we didn't bring any clothes, we didn't bring anything, we just came to talk to you. She said, "Okay, well, you can bring her back in a week." I said, "Tell you what, she can stay tonight, I can bring her clothes and things tomorrow." My daughter stayed at Methodist Home for Children for a year and a half. It was hard. But it was a lesson learned among the family because we found out what our issues were. 
  •  My children was lonely because there wasn't a man in the house. They didn't get to know their dad, but they also found out that it's not your momma's fault that you don't know your dad. They also found out that I lashed out from the pain and the suffering that I had within myself. And it's like an addiction. You're going to have it, but you've got to learn how to control it. You've got to learn how to not let it take over you. So that's why I say that I have, because I still have those issues and every now and then I can feel them coming up. And everybody get upset, but you gotta learn, you gotta know how to control your own issues. My issues are not your issues so you can't fault me for what I'm doing. I can't fault you. All I can do is consider it helping you. 
  •  So, she stayed there for a year and a half. She graduated. My daughter was doing, she's doing so much better, even now I'm so proud of her. So she came home, and Trella came to me and she said, "Momma, I want to go to Reagan High School." 
  •  MOSLEY: Oh, no you don't. Cause I had heard that Reagan was a bad school. I did. I heard that Reagan was just all out, it was wild out-- that's what the young people say, it's wild out. I heard it was terrible, and I was like "Trella, please baby, you don't want to go there." "Yes I do, Momma. All my friends go there, all my friends go to Reagan." "Okay, but you better keep your grades up or I'm gonna let you go there for the first year and I want you to keep your grades up. If you don't keep your grades up we moving around. I'm gonna get you out of there." Trella went to school and in ninth grade she was doing real good. She had made the dean's group and everything was good. 
  •  So her sister ended up pregnant and the way she told me she was pregnant-- I had went to Firestone to get my oil changed and to get some new tires on my car. Now Kasma goes over to the attendant, you know, to the cashier person, and she's whispering something to him and I'm like, what is she doing? And I look over at the door and Trella's over there holding the door open. And I'm just going back and forth like what is going on, what they doing? Kasma comes over to me, she stands up and I'm looking up there, and I said, "What you doing, girl?" she says, "Momma, I got to tell you something." Now mind you, Kasma was a track star. She ran track. She says I got to tell you something, Momma. 
  •  I used to tell my girls, "You get pregnant I'm going to beat you up, you better not never get pregnant." We say things to our children, but, you know, some parents may mean it, but some, me, I can only speak for me, I said it to scare them. To hope that they don't do it because of the fear that I may be placing in their heart. I don't know if that's correct either, but that's what I did. And I'm the kind of person that confess on my own.  
  •  So she said, "Momma, I'm pregnant" (shoosh) she ran out that door. Why, she took off so fast-- I was like. And the man looked at me and said "Ma'am, you all right?" And I said, "Uh, I don't know. Did you just hear what she said?" He said, "Yeah, she told me if you grab her, call the police." And I'm looking at Trella, like, Trella's got her hand in her mouth like--and she looking at me like, "Wow, Momma."  I said, I go out the door, and I'm walking. 
  •  Kasma's all the way up to the Taco Cabana on Williamson Cannon, I mean not Williamson County but, William County, you know it's the Firestone right there on 35. Kasma's all the way up there by the Taco Cabana and I'm yelling "Kasma, come here." 
  •  Mmmhnn. She says "No, Momma, no, you're going to hit me." I said Kasma, come here. Trella comes over there, she looks me in my eyes, she looks at Kasma, I say Kasma, come here.  Trella gets up real close to me, she looks me in my eye, "Kasma come on, she ain't going to do nothing to you." 
  •  Kasma comes over there. I went to put my arms around her, she flinched. And I hugged her and I said, "We're going to be alright. This is gonna work. We're gonna make this work." And she just started bawling. I said, "Baby I love you." 
  •  MOSLEY: You are gonna have my grandchild, I can't hurt you. So, she had my grandson. He was so sick, he almost didn't make it. He was on a machine, a breathing machine for almost a year. He was very very sick when he was born and she almost died having him. So, me and Trella was there for her, though. 
  •  MOSLEY: Her sister, Trella took care of her sister. And she basically took the baby as though he was hers. And his name is Isaiah, strong strong name for my baby. We looked in the Bible and gave him that name. So Isaiah grew up, and Trella was in Reagan, Kasma was a mother, I'm a grandmother. We had all of this going on. 
  •  MOSLEY: Trella came home one day and she said, "Momma I met somebody. I think he's kinda nice." I said, okay, why you telling me? "Well, I want you to meet him cause I think I want him to be my boyfriend." See that's the understanding me and my children had. 
  •  MOSLEY: You know, when either one of my girls, when they started their cycle, Trella for instance, she called me, I was at work, three or four o'clock in the morning, she call me,  I'm a little lady, I'm a little lady." I said, Shut up!? You a lady? Shoot, girl, I'm coming home. I went home, we had breakfast, went to the store and bought personals, we talked all day. 
  •  MOSLEY: Now she needs to know about being pregnant, she needs to know all about it. So we did that. That's just an example of the relationship me and my children had. So she came home, "I kinda like him Momma, he's kinda cute, he's a quarterback." And she's the president of the cheerleading, and that's supposed to just be the given couple. 
  •  MOSLEY: I'm like well, okay, you know I need to meet him. I need to meet him. She brought him over New Year's Day. New Year's Day. I met him. Wonderful young man. Really nice young man.  
  •  MOSLEY: About a month later, she came home, "Momma, I can't be with him no more, I can't be with Marcus." His name is Marcus. "I can't be with him." 
  •  MOSLEY: I said, baby, why you can't be with him? What's wrong? Y'all were so cute. Thought everything was going so well. And it's so much other little things that happened in between that time that was I thought was nice. "Uh-uh. Momma, he don't want me to wear spaghetti strap shirts." Excuse me? 
  •  MOSLEY: "Momma, that's forcing me to wear something I don't want to wear or to not wear something I don't want to wear. And in my book, what you've taught us, that's a form of abuse." 
  •  MOSLEY: I'm proud of her. Yeah, you right baby. When you feel uncomfortable when you're with someone, that's a form of abuse maybe big or small. 'Cause if you feel that you have to be made to do something, or made not to do something, it's abuse. I don't care how you put it. 
  •  MOSLEY: And that let me know that my daughter knew, and understood some forms of abuse. So they broke up. And I was in the process of getting married. And Trella say, "Momma, I'm just not going to be with him any more." I say, Okay baby. 
  •  MOSLEY: "But Momma something wrong with him. He's talking about how he's gonna kill himself if I don't be with him. Mom, you got to get him some help." Trella had a very tender heart, a very tender heart. 
  •  MOSLEY: I said, get him some help? He got parents. Talk --- let his parents get him some help. You know, you leaving him, I'm gonna leave him alone. We ain't gonna have nothing to do with this boy.  
  •  MOSLEY: She was like, "Well, Momma, you has got to get him some help." I said okay Trella, just nonchalant, okay, we'll get him some help.  I got married. On March the sixteenth.  
  •  MOSLEY: He sang a song, cause we had already had him in the wedding party, and we thought he was over it. This is where I say that we overlook things that we don't know. And you know, just being a friend of the family now, and he was already in the wedding party on the program. 
  •  MOSLEY: Which, that's just not, saying I'm justifying him being or singing a song, but that was that just the way it was. So, he sang a song at the wedding.  
  •  MOSLEY: My husband at that time and I we left. And we went out of town after the wedding. On March the seventeenth, my birthday, we got a call.  "Marcus is in the house he done cut his neck in my house." 
  •  MOSLEY: Why is he even over there? How did he even get in? He bogarted his way into my house. Told Trella if she wasn't gonna be with him he was going to kill his self, right there in front of her. And he had her scared because, not because he cut his neck, now mind you she wasn't scared because he cut his neck, Trella was scared because he told her that he was going to tell the police she did it. 
  •  MOSLEY: She didn't know how to tell that. She didn't know how to say that, she was afraid. But she knew she could tell her momma because she knew her momma was gonna believe her.  Now mind you, his mother is outside in the car. Right there in itself you see is a sick situation. Okay. 
  •  MOSLEY: Now when I found out, cause we came home that night, when I found out she was out there in the car, brought him over to my house knowing I'm not home, right there that lets you know that there is a problem in that household somewhere.  
  •  MOSLEY: Cause first of all my child say, Momma  --  "I know that they got married yesterday, but I want to go over to their house." 
  •  MOSLEY: First of all you ain't going nowhere, especially over tho their house, the parents are not home. This is where we need to get the control over our children and control over out own lives as adults. So we get home, Trella telling me what happened. 
  •  MOSLEY: She's just all scared. I said, you have no reason to be scared baby. You didn't do anything. He's gonna blame you. Okay, that's fine, we'll go to court and prove it.  
  •  MOSLEY: So I called his mom, I said look Ms. McTear, I need to talk to you and your husband as soon as possible. Mind you, her husband was a preacher. Mmhmm. 
  •  MOSLEY: And I was like a lot of people hide behind their collars, and I mean no offense to anyone, but some people hide behind their collars, and they need to be brought into the light. So, I couldn't get him --she couldn't even get him to commit to a meeting. And I was like what is going on? So the following Monday came and she committed to a meeting on Thursday night. No, I'm sorry, on Wednesday night. 
  •  MOSLEY: I go over, my husband and I at that time, we go over there, me, him, Trella, we go as a family. And we go over there, sitting in their house on a Wednesday. Wednesday, March the twenty sixth. We sitting at their house, And I'm like. I could feel it. The pain, the hurt, the sorrow, the suffering in these peoples' house.  
  •  MOSLEY: Trella looked at me and she said Momma this ain't right. And I said I know, I know baby, I feel it too. We sit there and we talk to those people, no more than about thirty minutes, if that long.  
  •  MOSLEY: I was like, Marcus had asked me if I could get him some help. He called and he asked me, he said "I need some help. Can you give me some help? I said you know what, I'm gonna call this place that Kasma used to go, And if I have to pay for it myself, I'm gonna get you some help.  
  •  MOSLEY: So that's what I was going over his house to discuss with his parents. Now mind you, I'm a female, coming into this man's that's supposed to be so bold, a preacher, he's just strong. And I'm saying, your child need help and I'm willing to help him. 
  •  MOSLEY: That man, I know he felt in his mind, this woman gonna come into my house and basically try to headstrong me. But it wasn't that. It was me being concerned about your child. Because I was starting to feel something after talking to your child that I feel you need to handle up on. 
  •  MOSLEY:That man looked at me in my eyes and said, "You take care of yours and I'll take care of mine." Now me being the mother that I am, I took that to heart. Cause I'm gonna take care of mine, I'm just automatically thinking, you a father that's gonna take care of yours. He didn't.  
  •  MOSLEY: But when he said it, I looked at Marcus. That look that boy had on that, it, it would have killed you. If it had thorns, if it had anything sharp, if it was a gun, everyone in that room would have died behind that one look.  
  •  MOSLEY: And I looked at him and I said, Marcus, that look, right there, I said, that one, that look you got in your eyes, right there, that's the one you've got to work on that's the anger that's gonna get you in trouble. 
  •  MOSLEY: Yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. So I got ready to leave, because his father asked us to leave. I hugged Marcus and I said, I love you. I said I love you and we left. On the way home my daughter Trella, she said "Momma, you gotta promise me something.  
  •  MOSLEY: I said, what, baby? "You gotta promise me you gonna get him some help no matter what." I said what, well, Trella, I can't do no more than his people are letting me. "Momma, you can do it. You can get some help for him." 
  •  MOSLEY: Wooh. I did the same thing. I was like, cause I could see though, I could see her eyes. I could still see that look in her face when she asked me. She said, "Please momma?" Okay Trella, I'm doing what I can. Okay, promise you. Momma's gonna do what she can. 
  •  MOSLEY: So we went home, and she didn't get no phone calls on Wednesday night, didn't get no phone call so we thought everything was gonna be cool. You know, although I had already called Miss Stephanie again to let her know I needed for her to interview this young man so we could see if we can't get him some help. Trella gets up Thursday and she goes to school. I take her to school. 
  •  MOSLEY: And on the way to school we was talking about the day. Trella had this thing about, they used to go to the mall almost every other Friday, every other Saturday, they go to the mall. And when they go to the mall, they all want to dress alike. This particular Saturday coming up they want to wear pink t-shirts. A couple of the girls didn't have their pink t-shirts. 
  •  MOSLEY: So we was talking about on Friday, you know, her plans, what she was gonna go and all this good stuff, and I'm like, okay, baby.  
  •  MOSLEY: I said, okay, I said okay, you got your phone in case you know, something go wrong and you need to call me cause I said you know he may try to talk to you, you don't want to talk to him, you want me to come pick you up, I'll come and get you. 
  •  MOSLEY: Now this was Thursday. She said okay Momma, I'll see ya, I love you, I said, I love you too. She goes to school. 
  •  MOSLEY: And I'm at home. All of a sudden I get this phone call, at about four o'clock. It's Marcus. "Momma" - to this day he still calls me Momma - he says, "Momma, I did something real bad." I said, Marcus, what did you do? 
  •  He said, "I saw Trella talking on the phone and I got her phone and I threw it up against a wall and I broke it into a million pieces." I said, you know you gonna pay for that phone, right? "Yeah." 
  •  MOSLEY:  I said, Okay, how and why did you get that angry? "Cause she was on the phone and she wasn't talking to me." I said, Marcus. What is wrong with you baby? You don't have control over her like that. You don't have control over anyone but yourself and you need to get control over yourself. 
  •  MOSLEY:  "Momma can I talk to you, I just need to talk to you." I said okay, I'm on my way. I said meet me across the street at Nelson field. 
  •  MOSLEY: He met me over there and we talked for about an hour and a half, cause I wasn't supposed to pick Trella up until six. We talked for about an hour and a half, and the things this young man told me, and he was begging me, "I got a problem, I need some help." 
  •  MOSLEY:  I said, well baby, I got this school that I called, but your father ain't gonna let me do that for you. Well I'm gonna run away from home, I'm gonna run away from home.  Don't run away from home, cause you gonna have to face this problem one day.  
  •  MOSLEY:  So I go pick up Trella and she's coming out with a friend of hers named Brian. Marcus was furious, I was like, what, get back in this car. What's wrong with you? 
  •  MOSLEY: So I get out and I'm hugging Mar-- Brian, and I'm hugging Brian and get back in the car and Marcus is sitting in the front, Trella is sitting in the passenger's seat directly behind him, and I'm driving. Nobody's saying anything.  
  •  MOSLEY: I'm looking at Trella in the mirror because for one, Trella must be wondering what is he doing in this car? I'm leaving him alone but you got him in the car and he done broke my phone today. Why is he in the car? 
  •  MOSLEY: So I told Trella, I said, Trella, when I'm driving home I said Trella, I said, Marcus called me and told me that he broke up your phone. And he called me and asked me to come and talk to him. I said that's why we gonna go ahead and take him home first, before we go home, okay?  
  •  MOSLEY: She said "Okay, Momma." She just sat back there quietly. And we're driving, I'm going about forty-five, fifty on Cameron Road. All of a sudden, the door opens, on the passenger's side in the front seat. And Marcus lean out. 
  •  MOSLEY: We got trucks coming, we got cars coming -- mind you this is six o'clock traffic on Cameron Road. I reach over and I'm grabbing him and I'm holding him with dear life and Trella's got him from behind and she's holding him for dear life and we, I reach over, and now, I'm driving with my knee now, and I reach over and I grab the door and I close it shut. 
  •  MOSLEY: I pull us over to the side of the road. I'm on the slow lane. I done stopped traffic, I'm sitting there, I have to breathe. Marcus, what is wrong with you? 
  •  MOSLEY:  "I don't want to live, I don't want to live, if I can't have you and Trella in my life, I don't want to live. Don't nobody else love me like y'all do." That's why I call you Momma and I call my momma Dorothy." All his life. I'm like, Oh Marcus Marcus Marcus baby baby baby. 
  •  MOSLEY: So now I'm crying. I'm crying, He was so hurt. He was really really hurt. That young man, he was really really hurt and he couldn't get no help. Couldn't get no help from nobody because his father wasn't gonna allow it and his father wasn't gonna do it.  
  •  MOSLEY: So, I'm driving like five. In the slow lane. So I get almost to where we turn and I just stopped in the slow lane and all the cars pass me. 
  •  MOSLEY: I make sure no other car was coming. I bet we sat there for almost fifteen minutes. Waiting for no other car to come so I can get all the way over in the fast lane and make my left turn. To make sure he didn't jump out of my car. So we drive up to his house and his dad is sitting in the garage. 
  •  MOSLEY: And I walk over to his dad and I said, Mr. McTear, you need to get this boy some help. I said I don't know what's going on in y'all house, but you need to get your son some help. I said this boy just tried to jump out of my car and kill his self.  
  •  MOSLEY: Trella's just, oh my God, my baby, she was just so hurt, she was back there just crying. She was crying so hard and I was like, Trella, what is wrong? 
  •  MOSLEY: She said, "Momma, he's gonna kill his self. He's gonna kill hisself cause he don't feel nothing." I said, Trella what do you mean by he don't feel nothing?  
  •  MOSLEY: She said, "I don't know Momma," he just don't feel nothing. We go home, the phone is like ringing off the hook. It's Marcus calling, calling, calling, calling. 
  •  MOSLEY: I said, "Trella, unplug your phone." Cause he was calling her line in her bedroom. I said, unplug your phone. She unplugged her phone. Then he started calling her cell phone. I said just don't answer the other line. I said just don't answer, cause you know, a couple of her friends was calling and talking to her about her phone being broke at school, all that stuff, you know how children do. 
  •  MOSLEY: So, she was like, "Mom, he keep calling." I said, well, you don't have to talk to him Trella. I said don't talk to him baby, just let it go. Don't talk to him.  
  •  MOSLEY: She said, "I don't want to talk to him Momma, but I'm concerned," she said. "I Gotta ask you something though Momma." I said, what, baby? "You promise you still gonna get him some help?" Trella. What's wrong with you? You see this boy? We can't do nothing. "Momma, you can do it.  You can do it, Momma." 
  •  MOSLEY:  Trella, okay, I'll see what I can do. Trella gets up that morning. It's like she went into dreamland, you know, and woke up new. 
  •  MOSLEY: Trella woke up Friday morning, she had a ponytail. She wore some white shorts, a white spaghetti strap shirt, some white socks, and the white bobby socks with the little round ball on the back, you know, you used to wear that back then. And she had that on. Everything was white. She had a little make up on. That big beautiful smile. 
  •  MOSLEY: So on the way, on her way to school, we was talking about her day again.  "Mom, you know I gotta go and get the t-shirts for the girls, so don't pick me up till six cause we gonna ride the bus to Highland Mall."   
  •  MOSLEY: I'm like okay baby, okay. She said, "But remember what I asked you yesterday?" 
  •  MOSLEY: I said what'd you ask me? I said is it about Marcus?  She said "No, remember we was talking -" I said girl we done talk about so much, what? 
  •  MOSLEY: "Remember M.C.I. is hiring? And you know, we going to be working there as sixteen-year-olds. M.C.I. was going to have some sixteen-year-olds work for the summer. And remember I told you to go and get a job so you can be our supervisor?" 
  •  MOSLEY:  Trella! I can't go get no job at M.C.I. and be your supervisor. "Momma, yes you can. Yes you can, Momma. We already done talked about it, we know, you gonna be our supervisor." 
  •  MOSLEY: I said oh my God, Trella, you just want me to do so much, I said, tell you what. I'll go up there. And I'll fill out the application and everything but, I'ma let you know, don't be disappointed, they're not gonna hire me. I'm too old. 
  •  MOSLEY: They're not gonna hire me to work at M.C.I. when they got all those little telemarketers up there, all them little young people. They ain't gonna have me up there. "Momma, that's why they gonna have you up there so you can be a supervisor." 
  •  MOSLEY: Okay Trella, Okay. I'm gonna go and do that, but I'll be here at 6 o'clock to pick you up, okay? So she gets out of the car and she's just skipping along. And I look at her. And I was like, Trella.  
  •  MOSLEY: She turned around, "Huh?" I said girl, you are beautiful. And she says, "Get out, Momma." I said girl, won't you give me some digits.  You know, I'm playing with her, gimme them digits, girl. 
  •  MOSLEY: "Momma, get on!" I said, alright girl. I love you. "I love you too Momma, go on, go home, get ready, go to the interview." Okay, Trella, okay, but I love you girl. She run back to the car, give me a kiss. "I love you too Momma." 
  •  MOSLEY: I said I love you too. Not knowing, that those were gonna be my last words to my baby and her last words to me. 
  •  MOSLEY: That's why I tell people we don't have time. We don't. Time is not on our side. You have to take the moment and the second that you're living in to appreciate the people you're with. It's different kinds of love. You gotta make sure that anytime that you're in the presence of anybody, before you depart, make sure you show them some love. 
  •  MOSLEY: Maybe a nice feeling handshake, a hug, or just a touch. Show love. Because like I said, I never knew those were gonna be my last words to my sweetheart.  
  •  MOSLEY: So I go home. And I'm like Lord, what am I gonna wear? So I put on this red and black outfit, Trella loved this red and black outfit. I said okay, well, I'm gonna put this on. 
  •  MOSLEY: I get to this interview at nine o'clock. I don't have no appointment, I walk in and say, I want to be hired today. This lady looked at me like, "Well, ma'am, do you have an appointment?" 
  •  MOSLEY: No sweetheart. but I'm supposed to get hired today. My daughter said, I'm getting this job. "Okay ma'am, well fill out this application and we'll set you up an appointment when you bring it back." 
  •  MOSLEY: I said, okay. I filled out the application, and when I go up there, there's another lady sitting behind the desk. And she said, "Ma'am can you step in that room and take that test?" 
  •  MOSLEY: I took a test, and when I took the test I went back to the first lady that was sitting there again, it was like they was playing tag or something, so I went back to the first lady and she was sitting there and she was like, "Did you finish your test?" 
  •  MOSLEY: I said, yes I did. She said, "Well I'll pull up your test scores and then I'll give you a time when you can come back for your, for the interview." 
  •  MOSLEY: I said, okay. I didn't even sit down good. This woman came to me and said, "Ma'am we gonna set you up for an interview at two o'clock." I said, okay. "Well you can go and come back." 
  •  MOSLEY: I said, no I'll wait cause it might happen a little sooner than that. Although it didn't. I sat there all that day.  
  •  MOSLEY:  So this young man he comes out and says, "You can come back now." And I go back there and we're talking. And one of the questions he asked me-- "What would prevent you from coming to work?" 
  •  MOSLEY: At the time he said that, I had this pain in my chest. And I leaned over, I couldn't even talk it hurt so bad. He said "Ms. Mosley you all right?" 
  •  MOSLEY: I said yeah, I said, but what would prevent me from coming to work would be my children. My children come before any job. I can get a job, but I can't get another child. Not the ones that I have.  
  •  MOSLEY: He was like, "Wow, Ms. Mosley, I never heard it put like that." I said, well, I'm just gonna be straight up with you. And this pain came back again. He said, "Can you start Monday?"  I said, I got the job?  
  •  MOSLEY: He was like, "Yes ma'am. We would like for you to supervise the young team that's starting to come in." And they was -- I said, excuse me?  He said, "Well you were a general manager and you were," you know, da da da da da.  
  •  MOSLEY: I said, yeah. He said, "Well you have supervis-- ." I said okay. If that's what you want me to do that's what I'll do. So I'm all excited, I got a job for my baby, I got a job for my baby.  
  •  MOSLEY: So I go and I run out to Hutto to tell her godmother Rhonda. I said,"Rhonda, look I got this job -- and that's about 4:15 -- and I ride all the way out to Hutto and I get there arounfour-fifteen. And I say Rhonda, I got this job at M.C.I., M.C.I. And I want you to know something.  You will be going Monday to put in an application so you can be my assistant to help these children. 
  •  MOSLEY: "Girl, I can't get no job." I said you know I said the same thing and Trella said I was gonna get the job, so you gonna get the job. I said, but I gotta go, I'm gonna go put some meat in, in the oven, cuz I gotta pick up Trella at six.  
  •  MOSLEY: And by this time it like, like almosfour-thirty. So I said, let me go put my meat in and everything and get the house ready, you know, start dinner, rather, and then I'm gonna go get Trella. 
  •  MOSLEY: So I'm driving home. Kasma had my cell phone, cause Kasma had her own apartment at that time, with my grandson. So Kasma had my cell phone and she didn't have the charger so the battery had went out, okay, but I had my pager on.  
  •  MOSLEY: And I'm driving home from Hutto and my pager just blowing up. I'm like, what? Who keeps calling me? Then somebody put 911 in there. 
  •  MOSLEY: I pulls over to this phone. I answer this phone-- I mean, I pick up this phone and I dial the number and I says, who is this?  
  •  MOSLEY: It was one of Trella's friends.  She's like, "Momma." I said yeah baby, it's Momma. "Trella's at Brackenridge." She was just crying crying crying crying.  
  •  MOSLEY:  I said, I can't understand, cause see she was Hispanic and she was crying a little harder, and I couldn't understand that breaking English you know. And she said "Trella's at Brackenridge." I said, for what? Why is she at Brackenridge?  
  •  MOSLEY: Momma, she got hurt at school. I said, well, why school ain't called me? Momma, momma, but you need to go to the hospital now. I said, Okay, I'm on my way. I said, but what happened? All I heard was knife, stabbed. I dropped that phone. I don't even know to this day if I hung it up. 
  •  MOSLEY: I got in my car. I'm on Cameron Road in Round Rock. It's five o'clock. Well, it's not five o'clock yet. It's about four-thirty five. I made it to the hospital at four-forty five. I was driving on the side of the road. I was driving all over the freeway.  
  •  MOSLEY: And when I get there, this man, a security guard. I drove up, and, "Ma'am you can't park there, you can't park there." I said man, if you don't get out of my face. My daughter's up here, and I don't know why. 
  •  MOSLEY: "Ma'am you can't park there." So this officer comes out and he was like, "Are you Ms. Mosley?" I'm like, yeah, but this man told me I can't park here. I need to get up her and see what's wrong with my baby. 
  •  MOSLEY: He said, "Let her park there just leave the car there, watch her car, just leave it there." I go inside. And when I go inside, this place was so crowded. And I'm like dang, this place. And in my mind, I'm like, this place is full.  
  •  MOSLEY: So I'm like-- Brian come walking up to me. "Hey Momma. The media say she gone." I say, Boy go on somewhere. Move. And I look at his mother standing there with him, and all of these other people they just looking at me all over the place and it's like, it's like time had just, slowed down, It didn't stop, but it slowed down.  
  •  MOSLEY: So this lady comes walking up to me and says, "Are you Ms. Mosley?" I say yes, I'm here to pick up Ortralla Mosley, I'm her mother. She said, "Well ma'am, she's gone." Just right off the bat. "She gone." 
  •  MOSLEY; I said gone where?  Um, ma'am, she's gone. I said, lady, ain't -- and I said it just like that-- ain't nobody got no business coming up here picking up my child. I'm her mother. Who'd y'all let come pick up my baby? 
  •  MOSLEY: "Well ma'am, we sent her down to the morgue." I'm like, what the hell? You sent her to the morgue for? My baby don't do that kind of stuff, she's scared of that kind of stuff, why you gonna send her to the morgue? 
  •  MOSLEY: "Ma'am, she dead."  Even to this day that still. "Ma'am, she dead." I'm like—Okay.  Okay then. I'm going to go down to the morgue. "Ma'am, we can't let you go down there." I said, I need to see my child. Somebody better bring my child up here. Then I look over and I see the McTears. I said, Where's Marcus? 
  •  MOSLEY: "Well he's um in one of the rooms, he's getting some stitches." I said, Why is he getting stitches? "Well. He cut his wrists." I said, so he tried to commit suicide? "Yes ma'am." 
  •  MOSLEY: But you saying that my daughter's deceased so therefore he killed my daughter, he completed her death, but he couldn't complete his?  
  •  MOSLEY: Oh, I was upset. I was upset. For a minute I kind of lost myself and then I'm looking at everybody and I'm like, my baby is what, gone?  So they put me in this room, and when they put me in this room, I'm like, okay. So my pager's still going off. 
  •  MOSLEY: So this lady, Brian's mother, takes me home and I'm sitting there and Rhonda walks in the door and she says, "As soon as you walked out the door Mama called me and she said they saying Trella was gone."  She turned on the news and she saw it and I'm like, Oh my God, Kasma. 
  •  MOSLEY: They had it on the news before we knew it. My oldest daughter found out from watching the news that her sister got killed at school. I was like, somebody needs to go and get Kasma, because I didn't know yet that she had found out.  
  •  MOSLEY: Kasma was on her way to my house, walking. Cause she didn't have a ride. But Rhonda got to her and they brought her to the house. And all I could my baby saying to me was, "Momma you promised me you was going to get him some help." 
  •  BACON:  I'm so sorry to cut you off, we're going to have to change the tape. 
Traducción en español 
  •  BACON: Estoy con Ms. Carolyn Mosley en Austin, Tejas. Yo, Kimberly Bacon, conduzco la entrevista y Parish Jefferson es el encargado de la cámara. Bueno, vamos a empezar ¿me pudiera decir un poco sobre usted y de dónde viene y su historia familiar y ese tipo de cosas? 
  •  MOSLEY: Bueno, soy Carolyn Mosley y nací en Nacogdoches, Tejas y a los tres meses nos mudamos a Dalas 
  •  MOSLEY: y cuando nos mudamos a Dalas mi padre se dedicaba a hacer muchos tipos de trabajos hasta que se autoempleo como plomero. Él tenía su propio negocio y cuando él tenía su negocio, nos iba bien. Estábamos bastante bien. Mi papá era muy buen proveedor. 
  •  MOSLEY: Y mi mamá, ella el tipo de persona que no tenía que trabajar y cuando fue mayor fue abusada. Y cuando ella fue abusada, o abusada por ella, después ella se convirtió en abusadora porque así fue criada. Y yo fui el producto de su abuso. 
  •  MOSLEY: Yo recibía golpes con extensiones de cables, varas, si se acababan las varas, ella se iba y regresaba con otra varas –ve y tráeme otra. Podía quedar con chichones en mi cabeza, la nariz sangrando, las cicatrices me podrían quedar sangrando –todavía tengo marcas de los cables de electricidad. 
  •  MOSLEY: Mis hermanas solía suplicarlen a mamá "Mamá, para. Nosotras podemos golpearnos en lugar de pegarle a ella," sabes. Y por el abuso abandoné mi casa. 
  •  MOSLEY: Y cuando me fui de la casa, me tope con otro tipo de abuso porque yo estaba tan desesperada por irme de mi casa que no me importo. Pero lo que no sabía es que estaba yendo directo a las manos de otro abusador, en este caso un hombre, 
  •  MOSLEY: y el tipo de abuso que recibiría de este hombre –él me pegaba. Y en mi cumpleaños me golpeó tanto, yo tenía siete meses de embarazo y él me pegó tan horrible hasta que perdí a mi hijo. 
  •  MOSLEY: Veras, era mi primer hijo era un niño. Y yo tenía siete meses de embarazada cuando él lo mató. 
  •  MOSLEY: Y digo que cuando él lo mató porque ellos dijeron en el hospital que mi hijo fue asesinado porque mi hijo estaba en realidad dentro de mi peleando por su vida. Su ojo estaba, tú sabes, destrozado. Su brazo estaba roto. Sus pequeñas costillas estaban aplastadas, el pequeño hueso de cartílago que tenía estaba todo golpeado y destrozado. 
  •  MOSLEY: El 21 de marzo. Fui golpeada en marzo 17. Ahora recuerdo todas estas fechas. En marzo 17 fui golpeada. En marzo 21 tuve a mi hijo. Retuve a mi hijo en la vagina hasta que llegué al hospital. 
  •  MOSLEY: Ellos me dijeron algo así como: "Señorita Carolyn, tiene que dejarlo ir, tiene que dejarlo ir." 
  •  MOSLEY: Yo dije: "Pero si lo dejo ir, se va a venir, es muy pronto." 
  •  MOSLEY: Tengo esta cosa por los niños, quiero a los niños, quiero a los niños mucho y cuando se llegan a lastimar es un dolor para mí ver a un niño lastimado. 
  •  MOSLEY: Bueno, mi hijo no lo logró. Su nombre era Demarcas y no lo logró. 
  •  MOSLEY: Aunque me fui de regreso a casa de mi mamá porque lo dejé, y me fui de regreso a casa con mi mamá, y cuando estuve de regreso en casa con mi mamá no pude soportar estar con mi madre. 
  •  MOSLEY: Verás, mi madre no era una de esas madres con las que pudieras estar hasta que te recuperes y pudieras irte. 
  •  MOSLEY: Mi madre era una de esas madres que decía "me pagas cuatrocientos dólares al mes y tu pagas tu renta" 
  •  MOSLEY: y yo todavía tenía la deuda del carro y el seguro, así que básicamente era como si tuviera un departamento de una recamara estando con mi madre. Así que no había forma de que ahorrara dinero. 
  •  MOSLEY: Aparte, en ese tiempo estaba trabajando con mi padre porque había sido golpeada tan horrible, este hombre podría ir a mi trabajo. Perdí mi trabajo después de él. 
  •  MOSLEY: Así que gracias a Dios mi papá tenía un negocio en donde yo podía tener un pequeño ingreso. Y ese poco, mi cheque, iba directo a mi madre, no a mi papi, porque mi mare era una de esas personas, madre mía le gustaba vestirse, 
  •  MOSLEY: mi mamá vestía bien. 
  •  MOSLEY: MOSLEY: Esa es una cosa de ella, todos nos vestimos bien pero mi madre, ella se pone el sombrero, ya sabes ella estaba "super bien vestida". 
  •  MOSLEY: No es que este exhibiendo a mi mamá. Amo a mi mamá. [incomplete translation] 
  •  MOSLEY: con todo mi ser, "¿Por qué no te diste la oportunidad de conocer a tu madre, tu madre no se dio la oportunidad de conocerte a ti?" No fue porque mi madre no supiera cómo y yo siendo tan joven entonces, no sabía como darle amor porque yo no lo estaba recibiendo. 
  •  MOSLEY: Tienes que ser enseñado a amar antes de que puedas darlo. Tienes que saber qué es el amor antes de que puedas transmitirlo, yo no sabía qué era. 
  •  MOSLEY: Todo lo que sabía era abuso y ser abusada era la norma para mí. 
  •  MOSLEY: Era como que te despiertas y te vas a dormir pensando: "qué me puede pasar que sea bueno" cuando te están diciendo las 24 horas, 7 días a la semana que "tu eres igual que yo y no vas a ser nada." 
  •  MOSLEY: "Tu no vas a ser capaz de hacer esto, tu no vas a ser capaz de hacer aquello." 
  •  MOSLEY: Aunque yo estaba en la escuela –era líder del consejo de la ciudad; era presidenta de esto, era presidenta de aquello- me estaba yendo bien en la escuela 
  •  MOSLEY: pero no era valorado por mi mamá porque ella siempre me restregaba en la cara: tú eres igual que yo. 
  •  MOSLEY: Bueno, pues si soy igual que tú ¿Qué es lo que esta mal de mí? ¿Que está mal con nosotras? ¿Por qué no podemos arreglarlo? Estas siempre han sido mis preguntas. 
  •  MOSLEY: Así que crecí con mi mamá. 
  •  MOSLEY: Este chico, él siguió hablándome y yo estaba como: "Dios necesito alguna forma de salir de aquí." Regresé; 
  •  MOSLEY: ¿Sabes?, te preguntas ¿porqué la gente regresa con el abusador? Yo regresé porque iba a sufrir abuso a cualquier lugar al que fuera. Sentí que no tenía alternativa. 
  •  MOSLEY: No sabía como crecer porque nunca me enseñaron como crecer. No sabía como ser responsable incondicionalmente porque nunca me enseñaron cómo ser responsable. 
  •  MOSLEY: Todo lo que me enseñaron fue a que cuando obtuviera el cheque, lo tenía que llevar a casa, ya fuera para él o para mi madre. No sabía como ganar dinero porque nunca tuve dinero para mi misma. Así que básicamente eso es lo que me quito mi independencia. Siempre era dependiente, porque no tenía ningún otro lugar a donde ir, nada más que hacer. Así que en el proceso de regresar, me enteré que estaba embarazada otra vez, de mi hija mayor: Kasma. Cuando estaba embarazada de de Kasma –esto no me va a pasar a mi otra vez; me voy a salir de esto. Así que me fui, y cuando me fui, fuimos solamente yo y Kasma, y por tres años estuvimos muy bien. Yo estaba muy, muy bien. Y después conocí al papa de Trella. Cuando lo conocí, pensé que todo iba a estar bien. Ya sabes, muchas veces cuando conoces a chicos_ y solamente puedo hablar desde el punto de vista de las mujeres, porque soy una mujer_ pero muchas veces cuando conoces a un hombre y te sientes bien con él, das un tiempo. Y a razón por la que digo esto es porque yo me aceleré y no lo conocía bien, solamente conocí lo que estaba en sus pantalones. Y no llegué a conocerlo como individuo, como una persona con emociones, como una persona con sentimientos, como una persona con tiempo adentro. Y lo que quiero decir con esto es que después de conocerlo me enteré que él no podía despertarse sin un toque, no podía irse a dormir sin un toque, no podía despertarse a media noche, ir al baño y regresar a dormir sin antes fumarse un porro antes de regresar a la cama. No sabía de la adicción que tenía. Así que ahí estaba, entrando a otro abuso. Y eso siguió hasta que él empezó a robar. Nuestras cuentas no estaban siendo pagadas porque, a él también, le estaba dando mi dinero. Así que lo dejé cuando Trella tenía nueve meses de nacida y me mude. Y empecé a enseñarles a mis hijos sobre el abuso porque a mí nunca me enseñaron eso. Y siempre pensé que si yo no les enseñaba entonces podrían caer en los brazos de gente como yo caí; y si les enseñaba a ellos, al menos podrían notarlo antes de que ya fuera muy mal. Y les enseñé a mis hijos como amar. Ya ves que mucha gente no les enseña a sus hijos a amar. Les enseñan a sus hijos "Se quien eres y cualquier cosa que pase pues pasa" y lo que quiero decir con esto es que te encuentras gente diciendo "Okey, bueno, yo lo amo y me importa mucho" pero, ¿qué es el amor? El amor es tu valor, el amor es quien eres, el amor es ser tu misma libre e incondicionalmente. El amor no viene con condición, el amor viene con muchísima libertad. Y mucha gente no entiende, piensa que tienes que estar atado en el amor. No, si estas amarrado en el amor, estas siendo abusada. Porque, estar atada significa que estas siendo forzada a hacer algo o que eres permanente y que no puedes hacer nada más. Todo eso, eso es abuso. La cosa que puedo sentir que viene con el amor es libertad. Y eso es algo que Trella decía todo el tiempo, el amor es una mariposa; esta encerrado en el individuo hasta que lo deja salir y es libre. Mucha gente no entendía este concepto pero las mariposas están tanto tiempo en el capullo pero cuando sale es bellísima. Y eso es lo que es el amor, es belleza es libertad. Y yo les enseñé eso a mis hijos. Así que Trella se hizo mayor, y Kasma se hizo mayor y hubo un incidente que pasó entre mi hija mayor Kasma y yo. Este incidente paso en donde se terminó llamando a la policía  para que viniera a mi casa porque mi hija me hizo algo un día y me puse como fiera. Y salte como mamá con ella, y no quiero decir como yo, la mamá, quiero decir como mi mamá. Ella me levantó la mano y yo siempre –yo era siempre del ese tipo de persona, que cuando las niñas pequeñas, si alguna vez me levantabas la mano, eso me hacía asombrarme y pensar y sentir que en ese momento en particular tu olvidaste que yo soy tu mamá- que solamente soy alguien de la calle. Así que en consecuencia, voy a olvidarme que eres mi hijo y voy a mostrarte en lo que te has metido. Seré vieja pero te voy, te voy a lastimar. Ese era mi concepto. Y seguí –esa parte no fue correcta de mi parte; nunca debí haber dicho algo así a mis hijos y nunca debí de haber hecho a mis hijos. Pero esa fue mi defensa para hacerles saber: "Nunca traten eso." Y yo pensando que poniéndoles miedo en su corazón: "No le levantes la mano a tu mamá, ella te va a dar una patada en el culo". Mi hija mayor Kasma se puso de atrevida un día. La niña de su casa me levantó la mano y cuando lo hizo, I WENT OFF. Hasta este día, ella te dirá: "mamá aún se disculpa por eso". Llamaron a la policía para que fuera a la casa, yo fui a la casa y dije: "será mejor que todos ustedes me esposen ahora" y dije "porque todos se vayan, voy a volverle a pegar. ¿Vas a llamar a la policía para que venga por mí y yo he estado cuidando de ti todos estos años, ni siquiera conoces a tu papa? ¿Ni siquiera ves a tu papá, ni siquiera hablas con tu papá? ¿De que se trata esto? ¿Y ahora vas a echarme la culpa a mí? ¿Y después llamas a la policía a mi casa? Niña, estas loca". Y yo estoy diciendo todo esto enfrente del oficial de policía y ellos estaban como "Señora Mosley, cálmese, cálmese señora Mosley, cálmese."  Y yo dije "Ok, ¿qué es lo que todos ustedes quieren?" Ellos dijeron "pues vamos a tener que llamar al SPN" [Servicio de Protección al Niño], y yo dije "bueno, llámenles" Y después le troné los dedos y le dije "Niña, estas actuando como si fueras tu mamá, bájale". Así que lo que hice, miré a los oficiales, había como seis, mi casa estaba llena y dije "Saben qué, denme hasta el lunes. Voy a conseguir ayuda para mi y para mis hijos". Que se note que dije "Voy a conseguir ayuda para mis hijos". Nosotros, como familia, en ese tiempo teníamos un problema; los tres porque metí a Trella a que viera eso. Kasma y yo nos fuimos encima, aunque ella no se fue encima de mi, solamente me levantó la mano y yo me le fui. Ella nunca me pegó, pero fue el HECHO de que me levantara la mano. Sabiendo que yo ya había estado en relaciones abusivas, la tomé contra ella. Así que ellos dijeron "Bueno Señora Mosley, entendemos lo que usted va a hacer". Y les dije: "Estaba tratando de proteger a mi hija, así que si todos ustedes la ven por ahí afuera, todos ustedes dispárenle porque Kasma andaba metida en algunas cosas". Ella tenía algunos problemas de comportamiento. Faltaba a la escuela, hacía algunas cosas, ya sabes. Pero, cuando faltaba a la escuela, se iba a la escuela de Trella. Tu escuchabas a alguien diciéndole algo a Trella, Kasma iba para defenderla porque Trella no hacía nada; aunque algunas veces se puede poner bastante TONTA-IDIOTA??, no te va a hacer nada. Kasma llegaría te golpearía y después regresaría a la escuela como si nada pasara. Así que ellos dijeron "Okay, les vamos a dar hasta el lunes, pero si el CPS va a venir." Yo les dije: "Okay." Una señora vino el viernes –era viernes- vino el viernes y dijo: "Vamos a tener que empezar a monitorear su casa y monitorear a sus hijos y blah, blah, blah." Y yo le dije: "No, no lo van a hacer," le dije: "Yo le dije a la policía que me diera hasta el lunes. Déme hasta el lunes y le voy a enseñar de lo que soy capaz por mi y por mi familia." Ella dijo: "Bueno, ¿Qué es lo que va a hacer?" Y le dije: "Todavía no lo sé" Y dije: "Pero mi familia y yo necesitamos ayuda y sobre todo yo se supone que soy la cabeza de familia. Necesito ayuda enserio." Y mucha gente cuando ven que necesitan un problema lo ocultan, y el problema solo se vuelve más grande. Continúa creciendo y se ulcera y ulcera y ulcera hasta que explota y se pone peor que antes. Aprendí eso a través del abuso. Les enseñé a mis hijos eso. Si te dan una palmadita una vez, la siguiente vez te van a dar un golpecito más fuerte; te dan un golpecito más fuerte y la siguiente vez te van a golpear. Cuando te golpean, después van a empezar a pegar. Eso va en crecimiento y crece y crece y crece. Así que llegó el sábado, y empecé a hacer llamadas desde la mañana y encontré este lugar llamado la Casa Metodista para Niños. Y hablé con una mujer joven de ahí y empecé a llorar y le dije: "Usted tiene que ayudarme". Ella dijo: "Bueno, esta es una casa para niños." Y yo le dije: "Cuando ayude a mi hija, usted me va a estar ayudando a mi." Y ella me dijo todas las cosas que me podían ofrecer; ofrecen consejería para padres e hijos pero la única cosa es que tu hijo se tiene que quedar ahí. La niña se tiene que quedar ahí por un año. Y yo estaba como: "Bueno, nunca hemos estado separadas, así que no sé." Ella dijo: "Usted dijo que quiere ayuda Señora Mosley" y yo dije: "Lo que cueste, hagámoslo." El domingo, mis hijas y yo, yo, Kasma y Trella viajamos a Waco, Tejas. Me senté y hablé con la señorita Stephane y ella dijo: "Podemos aceptarla hoy si usted quiere" yo dije "No trajimos ninguna ropa, no trajimos nada, solamente venimos a hablar con usted" ella dijo "Okay, bueno, la puede traer en una semana" le dije "le digo una cosa, ella se puede quedar hoy en la noche, yo le puedo traer ropa y cosas mañana." Mi hija se quedó en la Casa Metodista para Niños por un año y medio. Fue difícil, pero fue una lección que toda la familia aprendimos porque nos dimos cuenta de cuales eran nuestros problemas. Mis hijas estaban solitarias porque no había un hombre en la casa. Ellas no llegaron a conocer a su papá, pero se dieron cuenta que no era la culpa de su mama de que no tuvieran papá. También se dieron cuenta que me violentaba por el dolor y el sufrimiento que tenía dentro de mi. Y es como una adicción, lo vas a tener pero tienes que aprender como controlarlo. Tienes que aprender a que no se apodere de ti. Es por eso que digo que lo tengo, porque yo todavía tengo esos problemas y cada tanto puedo sentir que están viniendo y todo mundo se pone enojado, pero uno tiene que aprender como controlar sus propios problemas. Mis problemas no son tus problemas así que no me puedes culparme por lo que yo estoy haciendo; yo no puedo culparte. Lo único que puedo hacer es considerar esto como que te estoy ayudando. Así que se quedó ahí por un año y medio. Se graduó. Mi hija estaba –estaba mucho mejor, aún ahora estoy muy orgullosa de ella. Así que ella vino a casa y Trella vino y me dijo: "Mamá, quiero ir a la Secundaria Reagan." "Oh, no, no quieres." Porque había escuchado que Reagan esa una mala escuela. Lo escuché, escuché que Reagan estaba fuera de moda, era imposible, eso es lo que los jóvenes dicen, es un relajo. Escuché que era terrible, y dije: "Trella, por favor bebé, tu no quieres ir ahí." "Sí, sí quiero mamá. Todos mis amigos van ahí, todos mis amigos van a Regan." "Okey, pero más te vale que mantengas altas tus calificaciones o te voy a dejar ir ahí el primer año y quiero que mantengas buenas calificaciones. Si no mantienes buenas calificaciones, te cambiamos; vamos a sacarte de ahí." Trella fue a la escuela y en el noveno grado le estaba yendo muy bien. Había llegado a ser la directora de grupo y todo iba bien. Así que su hermana terminó embarazada y la forma en que me dijo que estaba embarazada, yo había ido a Firestone para que me cambiaran el aceite y para comparar unas nuevas llantas para mi carro. Bueno, Kasma va con el empleado, con la persona de la caja y le susurra algo a él y yo estoy como, "¿Qué esta haciendo?" Y veo hacia la puerta y Trella esta ahí sosteniendo la puerta abierta. Y yo solo estoy volteando de un lado a otro como "¿Qué esta pasando, qué están haciendo?" Kasma viene hacia mi, se me pasa enfrente y me le quedo viendo y digo "¿Qué estas haciendo niña?" Y ella me dice: "Ma, te voy a decir algo". Kasma que era un genio, en ese momento,  increíblemente se volvió loca. Me dice "Tengo que decirte algo Ma." Yo les decía a mis niñas "tu te embarazas y yo te voy a agarrar a palos, así que más te vale no quedar embarazada." Decimos cosas a nuestros hijos, pero, ya sabes, algunas padres puede ser que lo cumplan, pero algunos, yo –solamente puedo hablar por mi- yo lo dije para asustarlas, esperando que no lo hicieran por el miedo que les estaría dando en el corazón. No sé, no sé si eso es correcto tampoco, pero eso fue lo que hice. Y soy del tipo de persona que admite por si misma. Así que me dijo: "Mamá, estoy embarazada." y tómela salió corriendo por la puerta. Por qué, se fue tan rápido que yo estaba como. Y el hombre me miró y dijo: "Señora, esta bien? Y respondí. "No sé. Escuchó lo que ella acaba de decir? Él dijo. "Sí, ella me dijo que si usted la agarraba, ‘llame a la policía'." Y me le quedé viendo a Trella, como, Trella se puso la mano en la boca, como, y viéndome, como diciendo "Wow, Mamá."; digo, me salí por la puerta y voy siguiendo a Kasma todo el camino hasta Taco Cabana  del condado Williamson, digo, no en el condado Williamson, pero quise decir condado William. Es el que esta haya lejos justo allí en la 35. Kasma se fue todo el camino hasta el Taco Cabaña y yo gritando: "Kasma, ven aquí." Y ella dije "No mamá, no, me vas a pegar." Y yo dije "Kasma, ven aquí." Trella llega hasta ahí, me ve en a los ojos, ve a Kasma y dice: "Kasma, ven aquí". Trella se pone my cerca de me, me ve a los ojos "Kasma ven, no te va a hacer nada." Kasma viene. Me le fui y puse mis brazos a su alrededor, ella se encogió y yo la abracé y dije "Vamos a estar bien, esto va a funcionar. Nosotras vamos a hacer que esto funcione." Y ella solo empezó a berrear. Le dije: "Bebé, te quiero. Vas a tener a mi nieto, no puedo lastimarte." Así que ella tuvo a mi nieto. Él estaba bien enfermo, por poco no nacía. Estuvo en una máquina, en una máquina para respirar por casi un año. Él estaba muy, muy, muy enfermo cuando nació y ella casi se muere cuando tuvo. Así que Trella y yo estuvimos ahí para ella. Su hermana, Trella se hizo cargo de su hermana, y básicamente se hizo cargo del bebé como si fuera de ella. Y su nombre es Isaiah, fuerte, nombre fuerte para un bebé. Buscamos en la Biblia y le dimos ese nombre. Así que Isaiah creció, y Trella estaba en Reagan, Kasma era madre, yo soy abuela. Todo esto estaba nos estaba pasando. Trella llegó un día a casa y dijo: "Mamá, conocí a alguien. Creo que como que quiero que sea mi novio." Ves, ese es el tipo de entendimiento que mis hijas y yo teníamos. Sabes, cuando cada una de mis niñas, cuando ellas empezaron con su ciclo; por ejemplo Trella me llamó, yo estaba en el trabajo, a las tres o cuatro de la mañana. Me llamó: "Ya soy una pequeña señorita, soy una pequeña señorita." Y le dije: "Cállate, ¿tu una señorita? No mames niña, voy para casa." Me fui a la casa, desayudamos, fuimos a la tienda y compramos cosas de uso personal, hablamos todo el día. Ahora necesita saber sobre estar embarazada, necesita saber todo sobre eso. Así que eso fue lo que hicimos. Este es solo un ejemplo de la relación que mis hijas y yo teníamos. Bueno, ella vino a casa "Como que me gusta él mamá, es como mono, es quarterback." Y ella era la presidenta de las porristas, y supuestamente eso es como que la pareja ideal. Y yo como que bueno "Okay, pero ya sabes, necesito conocerlo. Necesito conocerlo". Lo trajo el día de Año Nuevo. El día de Año Nuevo lo conocí. Un excelente joven, muy buen joven. Más o menos un mes después, ella vino a casa: "Mamá, no puedo seguir con él más, no puedo seguir con Marcus." Su nombre es Marcus. "No puedo seguir con él". Yo le dije: "Bebé, ¿Por qué no puedes seguir con él? ¿Qué esta mal? Ustedes se veían super bien". Pensé que todo iba muy bien. Y hay muchas otras pequeñas cosas que pasaron en ese tiempo que pensé que estaba lindo". "Uh-uh, mamá, él no quiere que me vista con playeras sin tirantes, de las tipo espagueti." ¿Perdón? "Mamá, eso me esta forzando a que me ponga algo que no me quiero poner. Y en mi libro, lo que tu nos has enseñado es que eso es una forma de abuso." Estoy orgullosa de ella. "Sí, tu tienes razón bebé, cuando te sientes incomoda cuando estas con alguien, esa es una forma de abuso, puede ser grande o chico. Porque si sientes que te están haciendo hacer algo o que te están haciendo que no hagas algo, eso es abuso, no me importa como la pongas". Eso me hizo ver que mi hija conocía y entendía algunas formas de abuso. Así que ellos terminaron y yo estaba en el proceso de casarme. Y uh, Trella dice: "Mamá, ya no voy a seguir con el para nada". Yo le dije "Okey bebé". "Pero mamá, pero tiene algo raro. Anda diciendo cómo se va a matar si no estoy con él. Mami, tienes que encontrarle alguna ayuda". Trella tenía un corazón muy compasivo. Le dije: "¿Encontrarle alguna ayuda? Él tiene padres, dejemos que sus padres le den alguna ayuda. Ya sabes, lo estas dejando, yo estoy sola, lo voy a dejar solo." No vamos a tener nada que ver con este chico". Ella dijo, como que "Bueno mamá, tú tienes que conseguirle algún tipo de ayuda". Le dije: "Okey Trella," despreocupada: "Esta bien, le vamos a conseguirle ayuda." Me casé el dieciséis de marzo. Él cantó una canción porque ya lo teníamos incluido en la boda y pensamos que ya se le había pasado. Por esto es cuando yo digo que damos por hecho cosas que no sabemos.  Y ya sabes, solamente por ser amiga de la familia ahora y él ya estaba en el programa de la boda; lo que no quiere decir que estoy justificando que estuviera o cantara una canción pero fue eso de la manera que pasó. Así que él cantó una canción en la boda; para esa hora mi esposo y yo nos fuimos. Y nos fuimos fuera de la ciudad después de la boda. El diecisiete de marzo, en mi cumpleaños, recibimos una llamada; Marcus esta en la casa y se ha cortado el cuello en mi casa. ¿Porqué es que él esta siquiera ahí? ¿Cómo es que siquiera se metió? Encontró la forma de navegar dentro de mi casa, le dijo a Trella que si ella no iba a estar con él se iba a matar allí mismo, frente a ella. Y él la asustó porque, no porque él se cortó el cuello, ella más bien no estaba asustada porque se cortó el cuello, Trella estaba asustada porque él le dijo que le iba a decir a la policía que ella lo hizo. Ella no sabía como contar eso, no sabía como decirlo –ella tenía miedo. Pero ella sabía que le podía decir a su mamá porque ella sabía que su mamá le iba a creer. Ahora, hay que tener en cuenta que su madre esta afuera en el carro. Ahí mismo esa es una situación torcida. Okey, ahora, cuando me enteré, porque regresamos esa noche a casa, cuando me enteré que ella estaba allí afuera del carro, que lo trajo a mi casa sabiendo que yo no estaba en casa. Ahí mismo es evidente que hay un problema en algún lugar de ese hogar. Porque, primero que nada mi hijo dice: "Mamá sé que ellos se acaban de casar ayer pero quiero ir a su casa". Primero que nada tu no vas a ir a ningún lado, y menos a esa casa cuando los padres no estén en casa. Es aquí cuando nosotros necesitamos tomar el control sobre nuestros hijos y el control de nuestras propias vidas como adultos. Así que llegamos a casa, Trella me dijo que es lo que pasó. Ella simplemente estaba asustada. Le dije: "No hay razón para que estés asustada bebé. Tú no hiciste nada. Él te va a culpar. Okey, esta bien, bueno iremos a corte y lo probaremos". Así que llamé a su mamá, y dije: "Mire señora Mc Tierney, necesito hablar con usted y con su esposo lo antes posible". Lo creas o no, su esposo era un predicador. Y yo estaba como "mucha gente se esconde detrás de sus collares, y bueno, no es ofensa para nadie pero algunas gentes se esconden detrás de su collares y ellos necesitan ser expuestos a la luz. Así que, no puede hablar con él. Ni siquiera ella podía hacer que él se comprometiera a una reunión. Y yo estaba como "¿Qué esta pasando?"; así que al lunes siguiente ella vino y se comprometió a tener una reunión el jueves en la noche, no perdón el miércoles en la noche. Yo fui, mi esposo y yo en ese tiempo; fuimos yo, él, Trella, vamos como familia. Y fuimos como familia a ese lugar –nosotros sentados en su casa el miércoles, el miércoles 26 de marzo. Estábamos sentados en su casa y yo estaba como – yo podía sentir el dolor, la herida, la pena,  el sufrimiento en la casa de estas personas. Trella me miró y me dijo "Mamá esto no esta bien". Y yo dije "Yo sé, yo sé bebé, yo también lo siento". Nos sentamos y hablamos con esas personas no más de cerca de 30 minutos, si acaso". Yo estaba como "Marcus me había pedido si le podía conseguir alguna ayuda. Él me llamó y me preguntó, él dijo: ‘necesito algún tipo de ayuda. ¿Tú me puedes dar alguna ayuda?'" Yo dije, "Sabes qué, voy a llamar a este lugar al que Kasma iba y yo tengo que pagar por eso, voy a conseguirte alguna ayuda". Así que de eso iba a hablar a su casa para discutir a sus padres. Disculpa que, yo soy una mujer llenado con ese hombre que se supone 
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Title:Interview with Carolyn Mosley Samuel
Abstract:Carolyn Mosley Samuel is the mother of Ortralla LuWone Mosley, who was fifteen years old on March 28, 2003 when she was stabbed to death at Reagan High School by her sixteen-year-old ex-boyfriend. In Video 1, Mosley describes the history of abuse in her family; her struggle to interrupt those patterns as a parent; and the circumstances leading up to the death of her daughter. In Video 2, Mosley discusses the aftermath of the murder in the high school, in the courts, and in her decision to start a foundation to prevent teen dating violence and to become a correctional officer. In Video 3, Mosley describes reconciling with her mother before her mother's death. The interview took place on October 1, 2009 in Austin, Travis County, Texas.
Sequence:1 of 3
  • Carolyn Mosley SamuelRole: Narrator
  • Texas After Violence ProjectRole: Collaborator
  • Kimberly Ambrosini-BaconRole: Interviewer
  • Parrish JeffersonRole: Videographer
  • Lydia CraftsRole: Transcriber
  • Lydia CraftsRole: Proofreader
Publishers:Texas After Violence Project
University of Texas Libraries
Date Created:2009/10/01
Geographic Focus:North America--United States--Texas
Geographic Base:North America--United States--Texas--Austin
Type of Resource:Moving image
    This electronic resource is made available by the University of Texas Libraries solely for the purposes of research, teaching and private study. All intellectual property rights are retained by the legal copyright holders. The University of Texas does not hold the copyright to the content of this file. Formal permission to reuse or republish this content must be obtained from the copyright holder.




Continues with Video 2 of the TAVP Interview with Ms. Carolyn Mosley Samuel

Return to TAVP Interviews