RUTH MARÍN-EASON: Maybe I'm wrong the way I think but that's how I look at forgiveness.
MARÍN-EASON: God can forgive them for a murder because he is God. But I cannot forgive somebody for murdering my son, or you forgive somebody for murdering a
loved one, when you're not God.
MARÍN-EASON: So we always kind of—when it comes to that forgiveness, I say, Well that's not true forgiveness. I say, Well as long as I feel right
and it feels right to me, I feel I forgiven it. I forgive A.D. for murdering my son, for hurting me.
MARÍN-EASON: But he needs to get in contact with God and forgive him for the murder because how can I forgive him for murdering someone when I'm not
MARÍN-EASON: And it's a crazy thing but everybody, my mom always said that every cabeza en el mundo and you think your way but because you think and you're
my daughter, we're not going to think the same way because each head is its own little world and I cannot make you believe the way I do, so.
MARÍN-EASON: I always tell them in our group, they say, "Well I don't see how you could forgive." I said, That's mine because it was making me sick. All
the anger and hate I felt is making me physically sick. I have to forgive him for hurting me. But for the murder, they need to contact God because I cannot forgive them.
SABINA HINZ-FOLEY: I'm curious because this has come up in other interviews, too. Moving past the anger, does that—I mean you just said you learned to
forgive them for hurting you and what they've done. Can you talk a little bit more about the emotional healing process that you, or what helped you versus maybe what has helped your older
RUTH MARÍN-EASON: What—on the hurting—the hate that we feel, the pain that we feel when someone is taken from you, you have all this anger and hate.
MARÍN-EASON: You go crazy. It's just something that we will never understand, the hurt and pain that a person feels unless you're going through it. My anger
and hate was so intense that I wanted to hurt back and because of the feeling that I had in me that it was Dianna, my daughter-in-law, I loaded a thirty-eight in my car; I was going to go kill
MARÍN-EASON: I was going to Oklahoma to hurt her because in my heart I thought she's the one to blame for my son's death. But my husband stopped me and my
daughters, both of them.
MARÍN-EASON: He called them and said—I backed up into one of the customer's cars he had to replace because I didn't want anyone to stop me. I was just so
angry. I thank God now that they did stop me because at that moment, at that time that all this is happening, you're not rational of what you're doing because of the anger and hatred you feel
is so intense because part of your heart's been ripped out.
MARÍN-EASON: My youngest daughter was telling me something and I was just so angry. You start cursing. Everything's coming out of you. I picked up a
cooler and she's walking in her house and I threw it on her back and I just threw it at her.
MARÍN-EASON: My little stepdaughter said something and I threw a ketchup bottle at her. I was just throwing things. I broke so many coffee pots. I'd open the
refrigerator and just slam everything out because you feel all this anger and you cannot understand the feelings that are going through you.
MARÍN-EASON: I had never in my life felt so angry and so hateful that I didn't even like myself. Maybe it was me. You go through the, "What if I had done
this? What if I had done that?" We try to take the blame because we weren't there for our loved one.
MARÍN-EASON: I said I had called Raúl on August, the fourth. I was going to San Antonio because my husband was going to Dallas to see his grandkids and when
I called him he says, "They won't come because they're in Oklahoma." I was so angry at myself because I said, I should have still gone.
MARÍN-EASON: My grandkids were not there but Raúl was and I tortured myself. I blame me because if I'd been there, maybe I could have saved him. That's
why I had so much anger in me, so much hate because I said, Why did I just want to see the grandkids? I should have been there to see my son and I didn't go. So then everybody was paying
MARÍN-EASON: I was breaking things. My husband was a coffee-lover. He loved his coffee in the morning, day and night, it didn't matter. And because I was I
was so mad I'd pick up the coffee mug and break it. And it wasn't his fault, but I was releasing the anger I had.
MARÍN-EASON: He told me, he said, "If you keep breaking the coffee mug, I'm going to have to divorce you." Because he kept buying them and bringing another
one. And then one my step-sons came in and said, "Oh God, Dad somebody was in the kitchen and broke all the dishes."
MARÍN-EASON: And he said, "No it was your step-mom. She had one of her crazy spells and broke everything." He said, "Don't worry about it. Clean it up and
buy some more."
MARÍN-EASON: But it was just—I felt so guilty for not being there because I thought he was going to Dallas and then he made me go to Dallas with him one time
and I was always thinking of why didn't I just go to San Antonio and be there. I could have been there. I could have saved him.
MARÍN-EASON: But I was just in my anger taking everything out on me, thinking it's my fault and I think we as parents always think well, we're supposed to
protect our children. And I had failed because I didn't do it.
MARÍN-EASON: So my oldest daughter and my younger daughter made me go to church with them and it's when old pastor Joel Olsteen was there. And then I
was mad when we come home because he was preaching and he was talking about this anger and hate that people feel.
MARÍN-EASON: And I started cussing at them. I said, Why are you guys telling him everything that I do at home. They said, "Mom we didn't tell him
MARÍN-EASON: I said, Well he was preaching and he's pointing at me. I guess I just felt bad that—I felt, Why is he picking on me? I mean with
church—it's a huge church, but at the time I thought, This preacher's only pointing his finger straight at me.
MARÍN-EASON: I was mad at them, at both my daughters because I thought, You guys are telling him stuff that's going on here at the house that nobody
should know. Who else would know? Just the people who's there. It was kind of creepy for us because there was things that I said and it seems like he knew everything. And in September, he was
making like an altar call and I wasn't ready to go talk to no—to God or nobody because I was mad at God. I was mad at everyone.
MARÍN-EASON: And they said the preacher always call for altar, call for sinners and—well this time he's calling the altar call for people that are
angry and have all this hate and I'm like, Damn, there go my girls again telling him stuff. How does he know what I'm feeling?
MARÍN-EASON: And they actually grabbed me by the hands and dragged me up there and I'm standing there and he's praying for everybody and he's getting close
to me and I said, Look, your prayers aren't going to work because I'm still mad. I'm still angry.
MARÍN-EASON: But he came around and prayed and I was angry at the girls for doing it, but yet I was relieved. It felt like a burden taken off of me and I
felt, well it really had to be God telling him what I'm doing and I'm blaming the girls. It's crazy but other things happen that—I said, How could somebody know this when everybody's
MARÍN-EASON: It's—I started thinking after when he prayed that he said, that a lot of times we take things into our own hands. We might take it to the altar,
but we don't want to leave it there. We want to help. And I sure did. I wanted to help God because I said, You know what went on. You know what happened, but you're not doing your job. Let
me help you do it.
MARÍN-EASON: I wanted to because you want to take matters into your own hands. And one day, I finally realized, God has been good to me.
MARÍN-EASON: He's given me a good life. Many times I've been close to sickness. When all this happened, I was getting real sick physically. It was draining
me because when you have that much anger and hate in you, it's not just what you're feeling, physically it's affecting you, mentally it's affecting you.
MARÍN-EASON: And I just pray to God that he gave me strength to change my way of thinking and all the evil that was done, he needed to help me focus on
trying to do good. I started changing my way of thinking that I want to be there for other families, be there to help them through this because it's not easy.
MARÍN-EASON: A lot of people talk about the forgiveness and the way that I personally look at forgiveness is I can forgive somebody for hurting me, like
Dianna and A.D. hurt me because they took my son. I can forgive them for hurting me because I want to continue with my life, not with all that hate I felt and all that anger and blaming myself
for what had happened.
MARÍN-EASON: If I had been there, I could have been dead too because I don't think it would have stopped them. But at the time that it happened, I was
blaming myself because I felt that if I'd been there, it wouldn't have happened. But we'll never know. I could have been a victim myself and died there with him. So the way that I look at
forgiveness, somebody that hurt me, I can forgive them for hurting me.
MARÍN-EASON: And the murder itself, that would have to be between God, Raúl, and the murderer because there is no way that I could forgive somebody for
murdering my son because I'm not God. The only one that I know that can forgive somebody for a sin as bad as a murder would be God.
MARÍN-EASON: We as parents can forgive someone for hurting us because when they took our loved one it hurt and that forgiveness just helps us go day by day
in our life so we won't be so angry and so sick, physically sick because of it.
MARÍN-EASON: So I feel for hurting me, I can forgive you. For the murder? It's between the murderer and God. God is the only one that can forgive
anybody. It doesn't matter who you are for a murder. Now I've had a couple people said, "Well I forgave the girl that murdered my daughter."
MARÍN-EASON: I said, Well, are you God? "Well, no." I said, Well then how can you forgive him for murder? The only one that can forgive
for a murder is God. And that is my belief of forgiveness. I can forgive a person for hurting me, but for murder, it's between them and God.
MARÍN-EASON: We have people that believe that it's not true forgiveness because you have to forgive them for the murder and all I can say is, I'm not
God. He made us in his image, but I'm not God and I cannot forgive for murder. Now if I was God, all those murderers wouldn't like it because me not being God, I wouldn't ever forgive
MARÍN-EASON: I'd send them straight to hell where they belong. And that's why all those murderers should be thankful that I am not God and He is. And
it's my way of believing that a person can forgive someone for hurting them, but for murder you can't. And it would have to be between God and them.
MARÍN-EASON: And it's a very difficult step to take because a lot of people are even ready for even forgiving them for hurting them. But it was
effecting my physical, my mental, my spiritual. I had to forgive them for hurting me. They didn't ask me. I just did it because I don't want that on my conscience.
MARÍN-EASON: I don't want to live a life with all that hate in me. Yes, I get upset when I come across things that, like her release, because I'm human. Yes,
I'm going to get upset. I came Tuesday from my meeting and when I Googled the name, I was very upset that she's preaching the Gospel and telling her testimony.
MARÍN-EASON: It made me mad because I read it and nothing in there on her little thing on the Internet does it say what she was charged with and the
technicality that she was let out on. So yes, it made me mad because I'm human and I just pray that she doesn't hurt nobody else because it will happen.
MARÍN-EASON: Looking at what I see, she already used my son's murder to make money, asking different churches to help her with her and her five
MARÍN-EASON: She'll do it again and she's doing it again because I go and tell my story and what's happened to me, I do not charge anybody anything. But now
she'll come and tell you her testimony for three hundred dollars. That's making money off of people, using them and that is called repentance from her church or wherever she's at? I don't think
MARÍN-EASON: So all I can say to Dianna is that she better thank God that He is God and not me because for murder, there's no forgiveness from a
human. The only one that can forgive that is God and it's when you really, truly repent and start a new life and leave all your lies behind.
MARÍN-EASON: But when you're living that lie and using it to your advantage to make money, which is a main reason my son was murdered was to make money,
there's no change. But of course, like I said, I'm not God. It's between Him and her and if my son wants to forgive her, if he's up there but it's totally in God's hands.
HINZ-FOLEY: Thank you. Kim, do you have any questions you wanted to ask?
KIMBERLY BACON: I don't think—if there's anything that we haven't touched on that you want to talk about, or that you want to say for the public historical
record that you want people to know?
HINZ-FOLEY: We forgot to ask or something, or you want people from your experience to know?
RUTH MARÍN-EASON: Not really. I just—when I'm called, I tell my story and how I feel about it and it's—any time I have an opportunity, as people walk
away from us, say, "Oh my gosh, she's going to tell me about her kid again."
MARÍN-EASON: But I mean, what else, this is all we have is pictures and our memories of our loved ones and we just have to continue everyday. I mean that's a
fight in itself, and try to encourage other ones to do the same that I'm doing. Just keep going.
MARÍN-EASON: There's no way to prepare anybody for this. We went to a place where they were giving a workshop and this woman kept saying how many degrees she
had and my question was, "How can I, or how can you help my daughter that has children prepare her for what I've gone through." And she's telling me again all this degrees she
got. I said, "You still haven't answered my question."
MARÍN-EASON: Is there, with all them degrees, all that schooling that you have, how can you prepare my daughter or anybody else's daughter that has children
for what I'm going through? But she couldn't do it. Finally after five times she said, "There's no way I could do that."
MARÍN-EASON: I said, Well, what are all those degrees good for? You have not experienced what I'm going through. You don't have the slightest idea.
MARÍN-EASON: You read and all this. You have not felt the pain that a person feels. You might have empathy and think, "Oh, I feel bad for her." It's not the
same as feeling the pain that we feel.
MARÍN-EASON: There is no way on earth that anybody can prepare you for what we have gone through. I don't care how many doctor degrees you get, unless you're
a victim of a crime yourself that it is going through this and living it everyday, then you could say, "I've gone through this."
MARÍN-EASON: My story, my experience—it's not a T.V. show. This is real life. This happens everyday. And that is one thing that I get across when I go and
speak at the different colleges or the school that we're asked to. All you kids think it's like a T.V. show. It's not. This is reality.
MARÍN-EASON: It happens. It happens everyday. Every second there's somebody murdered and there's not just one person, but a lot of people that get
hurt. You were talking about the ones that get executed. That murderer made the choice to kill. He didn't just hurt the victim's family, he hurt his own family because his family's
having to grieve the punishment that he deserved.
MARÍN-EASON: But his family didn't and they have to go through this. So there is nothing that you can read or hear to feel the experience that we have felt,
unless you've been through it. Another parent, another mother, will know the pain that we feel. So anytime that we have an opportunity to tell our story, we will tell our story because we are
the only voice that our children have. My son doesn't have a voice, but I do.
MARÍN-EASON: And my life is totally different than it was eleven years ago. I had never in my entire life had experienced anything as hard and difficult as I
have through the murder of my son. And I just encourage other parents to speak for their loved ones and continue, continue going on because you want to die.
MARÍN-EASON: I've been called to a couple that, members that were suicidal. They want to kill themselves because they were not there for their child. But
that is not what our children would want. They would want you to keep fighting and keep fighting and keep going and justice will be done.
MARÍN-EASON: We might not see it, but it will—it will happen because God wasn't asleep when all this evil and murders happened. He's watching
MARÍN-EASON: And I don't care how much they say they've repented and all this. If it was a true repentance, then you would say, "I want to start my career
right. I need to pay for what I've done. I need to suffer the consequences for the sin I committed."
MARÍN-EASON: So that's why I always say that murderers are cowards because they back up. They want their rights read. They want an appeal. They want this.
What for? You know you committed the crime.
MARÍN-EASON: They've confessed they committed the crime and some don't ever confess it. But they still committed that crime. And if they're man enough,
or woman enough, to come forth and step on the plate and say, "I've done wrong," then they need to pay the price because when you do wrong, there's always consequences that follows.
MARÍN-EASON: And it doesn't matter if it's just a regular person, a police officer, a lawyer, a judge, we've seen judges go down, anybody, because we're
all human and we all make mistakes, but they need to be corrected and the correct way to do it is to step up to the plate and say, "I did wrong, now punish me."
MARÍN-EASON: Don't holler, "Well I didn't do it. I was just thinking about it, but he did it or she did it." If you're the planner, then pay for it. And
that's what I always say and I always will that the party that planned it, you might have conspired it, you're just as guilty as the one that did it because without your plan, it would have
never been done.
MARÍN-EASON: So it's something that we have to live with and continue on and I will continue speaking for my son until the day that I die. And I will
continue putting things on his website. I will continue putting things on Facebook that some people might not like.
MARÍN-EASON: But I'm just telling the truth of how I feel and I will do it until the day that I die. Then I'll stop. And if I can write from the dead,
I'll come back and write some more because it's the truth. It's—I don't know how anybody that is human and has a conscience can live with things like that.
MARÍN-EASON: Even animals. We saw that dog in New York somewhere. Where his little friend, the dog was dead. He covered the whole freeway. He's
defending that area. And we as humans can't defend another person. We're scared because, "Oh I know he killed her, but I'm not saying nothing."
MARÍN-EASON: Or sometimes the animals do more than we humans do. They defend their friend or their brother or sister who was laying there. I was really
touched by that tape that they showed.
HINZ-FOLEY: I haven't seen that. That was in New York?
RUTH MARÍN-EASON: Yeah the dog was covering the police. They had to close the freeway—they couldn't get around because somebody had run over that dog and
that dog is protecting it. It's like nobody's touching this area, it's crime scene.
RUTH MARÍN-EASON: It was neat. It was on there, and I'm like an animal—It's like these girls killing their babies and stuff. I said, You see all these
animals are cuddling their babies and touching them and another one's just throwing 'em in a garbage can—we don't want it. What kind of humans are we? It's getting worse everyday.
Ruth Marín-Eason is the mother of Raúl Marín, who was murdered on August 5, 1998. In the beginning of Video 1, Marín-Eason briefly relates her family and background and then describes the last time she saw her son before he was murdered. Later in Video 1, Marín-Eason describes how Arnulfo Díaz Anaya, an employee of Raúl Marín and his wife, Dianna Boatman-Marín, was about to go on trial for the murder, when Dianna Boatman-Marín was also arrested for her role in the murder. Towards the end of Video 1 and in the beginning of Video 2, Marín-Eason speaks about her experiences in the court room; her perceptions of the criminal justice system; and the roles she believes Dianna Boatman-Marín and Arnulfo Díaz Anaya played in the murder of her son. They were both convicted, but when Boatman's conviction was later overturned, as Marín-Eason explains, the Bexar County prosecutors did not re-prosecute. In Video 2, Marín-Eason relates the pain of being cut off from her grandchildren due to the hostile relationship between herself and Dianna Boatman and discusses her involvement with the organization Parents of Murdered Children. In Video 3, Marín-Eason describes the emotional turmoil associated with losing a son and ends by sharing her outlook on forgiveness. This interview took place on June 20, 2009 in Spring, Harris County, Texas.
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Sabina Hinz-FoleyRole: Interviewer
Kimberly Ambrosini-BaconRole: Videographer
Victoria RossiRole: Transcriber
Lydia CraftsRole: Proofreader
North America--United States--Texas
North America--United States--Texas--Austin
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